Northern Uganda May 27: Lord’s Resistance Army Rebels Chief Joseph Kony calls for peace talk despite his doubts in Museveni’s

The Monitor Online

I Am Not a Terrorist, I Am a Freedom Fighter, Says Kony

The Monitor (Kampala)
DOCUMENT
May 25, 2006
Posted to the web May 25, 2006

Riek Machar: Hello Vincent. This is Lt Gen. Vincent Otti. (Riek tells his delegation)

Otti: Hello good to see you again. (The two sides shake hands and take seats)

Riek Machar: I want to inform you that we are the government in Juba and there have been a lot of changes. I want to convey that to you. These changes will affect you. Khartoum was supporting but I think from the year 2003 they stopped supporting you. When we came to Juba, our President gave you three options. Our President said, make use of us so that we facilitate peace between you and the government of Uganda. We want peace in southern Sudan and northern Uganda. This is the option we want to pursue with you. Make use of us. You may not trust us but you have to trust us. The offer is better that you make use of us and negotiate with the Uganda government. If you do not make use of us then leave Sudan and go and fight from your country. The Ugandan troops are in our country, you are in our country and our people are suffering. Our people are being killed we want you to fight from your country. We are offering to mediate between the Uganda government and the LRA to end this war.

Otti: I want to thank you for this offer. I thank you for being different from people who think that we LRA are just killers. Overall commander of the Lord's Resistance Army Joseph Kony takes $20,000 from the hand of the Vice President of South Sudan Riek Machar at the LRA base near the Congo border. My first point is that, we are fighting the government of Uganda for what they are doing particularly to my tribe. The biggest number of my people is in camps and is facing poverty. On top of that as we are freedom fighters for our rights they change us to be terrible but we ourselves don't mind because we know we are not terrible. Secondly, we came to Sudan as any of other groups can go to the neighbouring country. The Sudan government hosted us very well but they turned against us that is why they make the war so difficult to end, now we are fighting in Uganda, in the Sudan and everywhere and our point is, the government is not our enemy, we are brothers because Acholi are in Uganda and Sudan but the government does not want to talk peace with us. Me as the vice chairman of the LRA I have come for peace not war. I have a request to make to you. I request you Mr Vice President, if possible, you know we are needed by the World Court. My Chair will be here in a few minutes but I request that if possible guns go away. Because I am very sure that we are guerrilla but we are careful we cannot be reckless. We want you to push your security and let people come just like I am.

SPLA General: How many men do you want to remain here, you do not want even a single soldier?

Otti: May be one or two you know us. People say that LRA does not want to talk peace may be that statement we carry on. (About 30 SPLA soldiers are ordered to back off 100metres from the venue. Riek is left with his personal bodyguard. After a few minutes Joseph Kony arrives at the venue guarded by about 20 heavily armed men. LRA soldier struggle to salute Kony as he walks.)

Riek: (Stands and walks towards Kony) Hullo I am Riek Machar.

Joseph Kony: Very good. Nice to meet you. I am General Kony. (Kony greets all the others with his right arm as he holds a brown diary to his chest. Takes a sit between Otti and another LRA Brig. Ochan Wilfred)

Riek: (Repeats the statements earlier told to Otti's delegation.) There are things that we want you to stop. Our people are being killed by your troops, stop it. Our people are being abducted by your troops, stop it. So that we can have a justification if I meet you Joseph Kony, then our people will not ask, why do you meet people who kill us? We say to them that we are meeting you because we want to bring peace. We went back with a message from him (Otti) that you want peace. But we put a condition that we want Joseph Kony himself to put it to us. Since Joseph Kony is the Chairman of the LRA, it must be him to tell it to me then we will take the process further with the government of Uganda. We know your difficulties one with the Americans. We know the difficulties with the ICC, which want you arrested.

But us as the people of South Sudan want peace. We are saying that our view is different. We want peace in northern Uganda we said we must act independently. We know your reputation we know what the ICC says and we know what the Americans say. But we would like to hear what you are saying. So this is our message to you.

Joseph Kony: Thanks very much the leader of the southern Sudanese government. I want you to understand me clearly in our minds and movements, SPLA or Sudan is not are enemy. This is what you should mark clearly in your minds; we are not enemies with SPLA. SPLA are our brothers. We the Ugandans, if I may go back historically, we come from Sudan. My grand dad came from Sudan. So our aim is not to fight SPLA government. But we do not know why SPLA is fighting us. Since I came in Sudan we never came to attack SPLA garrisons or detaches.

Confusion - It is only confusion among us caused by the Uganda government, which is making us fight each other and destroying peace. The Uganda government supports SPLA and at that time the Arabs were also supporting LRA. It caused a very big conflict between us, but our interest is not to fight SPLA, we just pass from here or from Sudan here to go and get our sisters or to go and do what we like not to come and fight Sudanese people.

This is what you should know of us. And me myself, I want peace, that is why I was in the bush I want peace I am fighting for peace and I know that in your radio message you said you are going to try your level best to see that there is peace in northern and southern Uganda.

I agree with that. That is why I am here and I still agree to what you said. And me, I know very well that most people don't know me. They don't know who is Joseph Kony and don't even know political agenda because I am in the bush- I am a rebel, Museveni is in the government, so you know that Museveni is working in very many ways to find me, propaganda, what what.

They do many things to know the details which happen in LRA which is very difficult so if you see now, where do I come from, I come from a very far distance even you are not serious or if I am not serious I cannot meet you but you are serious and are not happy about what is happening in southern Sudan because we are all brothers, we are all Christians, we are all black, we are all Africans that is why I am also talking to you to know very well that we the LRA want peace and we agree to what you are going to say to us. We don't want to fight, we don't want to exchange fire with SPLA, we want to talk to Museveni but only that Museveni did not want to talk with us.

If you go to Uganda and ask about all the peace talks, which passed long ago, you will hear that LRA, I mean Joseph Kony was the first man to call peace talks not Museveni, who called peace talks last time in 1993 and 1994. We are the ones who called for the peace talks so, as now I have met you and you have met me, you should know very well that there will be nothing among us, the sign this shows that we are not going to do anything, now I am present in your front and am now talking to you.

Fire exchange - There will be no exchange of fire between our people and your people this is what u should know very well. Me I know is that the whole people even the journalists don't know me because to get me is very difficult but Museveni is blocking people not to meet me so that people believe that propaganda that Kony is a terrorist, Kony is a killer but I am a human being like you and I am fighting for the right cause, what is happening in our country is very bad that is why we are in the bush.

You cannot stay in the bush for 20 years for nothing, so what is happening there is very bad so my being in Sudan does not mean I am a terrorist like Arabs, it doesn't mean I have adopted the whole system of Arabs, I am African, I will remain African, I will die African, that is what I want and all the people should know so if I read the story of SPLA in Kenya, you went there to get friends or to the people of Kenya to get a relationship, you went to Eritrea, you went to Uganda and Ethiopia. Us now we are in Sudan now we are in Congo. It doesn't mean that you went to kill the people of Kenya or Ethiopia, you went there for a purpose. We are here in Congo for the same thing, which is good for lives but not to kill people of Sudan.

Defence - But when we pass, those people come to fight us so we have to defend ourselves, we have to defend ourselves. Our intention is not to fight the Sudan government or to kill the people of Sudan. That's One thing you should know very well.

Secondly, as the LRA leader, I agree with everything because I am a human being and I know very well and some other people also know very well what the government of Uganda is saying is not true because Museveni is fighting me with his own government, Museveni cannot say that am good.

He will get a way that will make Kony not to be allowed in the world. This is what you should know very well.

As of now, Museveni said I was accused in The Hague or in ICC, which is not true. Iam not a terrorist, I am also a rebel in military opposition like SPLA as some other people. I am in opposition so if Museveni says that then it means that all opposition leaders of Africa they should also be taken to The Hague, which is not true this is what you should know. So we talk with Sudan government and agree, many people are there in Uganda and are our witnesses, if you talk to Museveni, he will not take three days before he comes and attack us in the bush. Last time when you sent a message to me he said to you that he was ready to talk with me in Sudan but not in Uganda, why? Because Museveni spoilt the whole thing. LRA wants peace talks as you want. LRA (are) fighters who want their war to be finished or to stop war as you are now not fighting the Arabs but in a good way and not in a local way that Museveni wants. This is what you should know also.

Thirdly, now, I see you have discussed many things to my vice, me myself I don't have any other words, I agree but you should plan together with us how to talk with Museveni because me I know Museveni is a person who does not want the idea of anybody talking. He is a gunman. He will talk through guns always. I agree with you, it depends on how we are going to plan, talk or do what but with my people, I have got very many people in Sudan In Torit, in Juba and here in Nabanga. Because we got a call that you want to talk to me that's why we are very many. That is why we are very many here almost a thousand here. So you know a human being cannot be alive without food, you should also plan so that there will be nothing that will happen.

Because we are human beings also we know law, we want peace. We are fighting for are people to be free. We are fighting for the right cause. We want to talk in a good way not forgery not by force not in a local way. We want also to be international not as the papers of Uganda say. We want to talk. I agree to everything, I am a human being; I want my tribe to be ok also. I want you to communicate to me the next thing to do but what I want you to know is that I want to talk.

Otti Vincent: What I also want to add is that to get peace is something very very difficult and may take a long time. How long do you think it will take to talk to get peace?

Secondly, today we are talking, in the past we were fighting, what makes us trust you today? You have suffered the consequence and we have also suffered the consequences. What I am about to tell you is that there should not be any hidden agenda. There should not be any hidden agenda at all. If there is any hidden agenda you have increased the burden.

It is not us who fought SPLA, it was you who attacked us first when you had a training base in Kilak Mountain. We entered ambushes of the SPLA three times we were not fighting you it is you who fought us first. Some of our commanders died. Let us start a new chapter with SPLA and LRA living together. The chairman is a friend of yours and the Vice, me I am also a friend of you. Let us end this conflict here and now.

Riek Machar: We in the SPLA had no reason to fight you at all. We would fight for the following reason; if we saw you killing our people we would fight, if we see you raping our people we would fight, if we see you looting our people we would fight. As you said let these be bygones. Since our president said that we can mediate we closed that chapter. Politically, we have no reason to fight you. That is why we think that you should make use of the government of Sudan. If we fight you, you will not trust us. If you want to fight yourselves, get out of our country. But if you want to talk peace we can help you. When we met on the April 11 after when I went back I found an incident east of Juba. I called Vincent and asked him whether he had soldiers in the area. Vincent said he did not have soldiers in there.

Ambush - We had our soldier ambushed but we did not stop there. We are ready to start a new chapter with you. We refused to listen to others who call you terrorists. We said we must make our independent move to get peace. We do not want any fighting with us again. If you have moved your troops to the Congo there will not be anything that will make us clash with you. Our forces are under orders; do not antagonise anybody, defend only our land. We do not deny we do have good relations with Museveni. This would be good for you if you are going for peace. It would benefit you because we can talk to him very easily whether he is in his palace or anywhere all over the world as long as the issue in this region is peace. I believe this is the first thing you want to hear. I would like to go forward or you would like to react to the others but let me go forward. We condone the killing of the SPLA forces on the Torit Road and also the killing of the UN, the miners who where working on the road. Let us approach it differently not fighting.

Let us talk to them. So we took it for granted, we have sensational hostilities, you want to hear it from me now, yes. If we are going to mediate, we cannot fight you. We must be able to reach you where you stay if we are going to mediate or facilitate you.

You should not fear us. So it means, there must be no hostilities between us because if I don't come to you and say, Kony, when Museveni says this, this, this, in your own headquarters, you will think there is a hidden agenda. We don't have a hidden agenda in it. You will not get a hidden agenda in it. Our agenda is one, peace in southern Sudan and northern Uganda.

So, if there are people who are interested in handing you over to the ICC, we are not in that group. If there are people who want to kill you, we are not in that group. They will kill you differently not us and if we say that we fight you, we will declare it.

We have no hidden agenda we only want to help you so that we have peace in both countries and in the region. Again I say to you, make good use of offices of government of southern Sudan. If we are going for peace, I promised him that if during the peace talks, we are going for peace, so that this commissioner does not complain, this governor does not complain. Since you have moved this way, we could even provide food as a government but we give you the conditions that you are going to talk peace. If you are going to talk peace then that is possible and that is why, that day when I came, I told Vincent that this money was for you to buy food.

We did not want your soldiers to go hungry and taking food from here and there when we have decided that we must talk peace. We do not want anything to go wrong between you and we. So if you are going to go for peace, we must have access to you, but rest assured, we have never handed over somebody who is an opposition over of his own government even during our days as a liberation movement.

We had people who came to us and we had good relations with the countries they came from but we never handed them over. So you must rest be assured on that, if there is going to be peace, if there is going to be facilitation, if there is going to be mediation, it means you and us must have access to each other.

You and the people like him,(pointing to the white man) when I wrote him the first letter to you, it was for him to get access to you and by the way he comes form a country- Holland. This is where The Hague is but his view is different, his organisation's view is different. On your behalf we have been talking, we said solutions in Europe like trying people in court; this is done in Europe not in Africa. In Africa, people talk. They find the differences between themselves and they resolve the problems so these are people who want to assist (pointing at the white man and his delegation). If they are going to assist, you must be accessible to them but we as government of Sudan, you must trust us.

Clashes - If there were incidences where they were clashes, we have forgotten about them. We want peace, we want to facilitate you.

We want peace in northern Uganda and in southern Sudan, and then trust must be built. You have to be accessible to us. We must be talking to you and if you are forming a delegation, it must be people whom we know.

If we tell them, look, pass this information to your commander in chief; they will pass it without being afraid that you will kill them because peace talks are like war. You are soldiers, we are also soldiers. Peace talks are like war, they are difficult. And if somebody you have entrusted, you have told him, go and talk peace, you must not let him down. You must be very clear with that person, he or she must also be clear to you so that you make the right decision.

So if you are talking peace, your delegation must be people whom you trust. People who will tell you, Mr Chairman, this is the right way and you discuss it with them; no we do it this way. People who must feel that, they are not being intimidated by the leadership. Ia m saying this from our experience of negotiations because at times it's like sending someone to a battle and that battle of words is difficult. So you must have trust of those people and they have to be frank with you.

Second part: May 26^th 2006 Monitor Online

It’s time for peace, says Machar RIEK MACHAR-JOSEPH KONY MEETING The last part of Kony’s Sudan meeting with Riek Machar. Grace Natabaalo transcribed the conversation from the video.

Daniel Awech (SPLA Minister): I would like to say that today our dreams have come true. When your second man (Vincent Otti) told us we would meet you in our village, we met as Africans, we met as brothers. We met as strugglers who have seen what war is about. War is peace when peace is dishonoured. And peace is war when pressure is exerted to the knowledge of the person fighting you.
So there is time for war and time for peace. This time is time for peace all over the world and especially in Africa. If there are people suffering, it is in Africa and those who do not know how, enjoy our sufferings. In Africa saying, it is said that when your brother is suffering, the other brother is totally happy. A brother dies, the other brother takes his wife and his property. So we are here to defend Africa. We will defend Africa then we will defend our ethnic groupings. Where the war has been skilled in to be just a tribal fight but not a right of every individual. You are fighting for your right, and if you are fighting for your right, don't be isolated; this is what has happened to you. You can be very strong in the field, but weak politically and you cannot achieve your objective if you do not have a political agenda.
It is the political agenda that you sell to other people and they can come in if your political agenda is very clear. But if your political agenda is just something in the bush, then no. So what is our political agenda? Fighting for what? We have become quite disturbed to keep pressure militarily to succeed in the political settlement. This is an example that we are giving to you so that you exploit it. We decided that by choosing a delegation that never changed, our delegation for 10 years was only one. Khartoum changed, changed, changed, but we refused to change. If you do that, automatically, this is what is happening in Darfur. They are changing and that is why it brought divisions among them. Talks can bring divisions among yourselves, but be consistent in your political agenda and I hope what we say, we act on it. We act on what we say, that we will be mediators. Why are we mediators? Because we know Museveni. He has been an agitator for peace. Why has he been an agitator for peace? Because the suffering is curtailed to your tribe in Uganda and your tribe in southern Sudan. This is very less, there is no Madi area; there is no Acholi area on both sides. There is an inner feeling in you that you should begin to deal with. Myself, when I was in northern Baringa, I signed peace without anybody because when I saw them kill my people, I came to them and told them, lets try and find peace. That is how we have been working. Still we came to bigger peace because it starts from the grassroots and grows to be for the government.

I signed three peace agreements, very local ones, to save my own people so that they remain in the area without being displaced. The displacement now is a great thing and it is that displacement now that concerns me. It is that displacement after we have signed peace with the government of Sudan and from September up to now. I have recorded what the causes of insecurity are in southern Sudan. I got the LRA to be number one, 17 points, which I cannot present to you, but to the Khartoum government.
And we can talk just like we have done now; we told them that we were going to talk for them because they are our brothers. You were using them at that time, as Brigadier said that when our forces where inside Uganda, they were helping the Ugandans because they were inside. If you say, let the people come home, while more of the fighters are still holding their guns out there, they do not believe what we are saying. They will believe that when they see that our people are happy in all their villages. This is what we fought for, as SPLA we have completely realised, but as for now they say, no, no, these are the educated class just going in.... (Inaudible) Peace cannot be obtained in a day or a month; it can only be obtained through understanding. In all this it depends on the type of mediation and the type of facilitation. That way, this is when we will bring all those who (inaudible)... because at the end of the day, we will be. ...(Inaudible) We have been inclined to fighting, fighting, fighting, and when we stop fighting, we don't have resources. Our resources are not being kept. In northern Uganda, they are not being kept and in Sudan it is now being taken by the Arabs, they are taking half of it in the whole area.

Riek Machar: I have another point to clarify; you said (talking to Vincent) you are sure that the UPDF will force us to show where you are. Vincent, do not be too sure. (They all laugh) Sudan is a different State. Relations between a State and a State are not personal so the SPLA cannot be forced by UPDF to take them where you are. The SPLA does not act on its own. It is the army of the government of southern Sudan. We are the leaders of this government. We are the commanders of SPLA. We cannot allow the SPLA to discredit the peace process. Because it will be discredited if tomorrow, we see the SPLA running after you. Then the peace process is useless. I cannot come to you and say, do peace when my force is fighting you. This is not logical. I want to assure you that we have taken a decision that we mediate between you and your government. We want peace in southern Sudan. We want peace in northern Uganda. That is what we are committed to. Whether Museveni has designs to rule southern Sudan and northern eastern Congo- oh oh, we fought a big war, not to be ruled by other people. Our president is Salva Kiir. He makes decisions with his Cabinet; he makes decisions with his party- SPLA, nobody else. That is want I to assure you. We are not puppets of anybody. Museveni or anybody else, No! So trust us. We will act through what we feel. Finally, like we said, this is a process of reconciliation between us and we are making the process of reconciliation to go forward. There will be no fighting anymore, we will tell our people, no skirmishes. You will tell your people, no fighting between ourselves, no abductions, no rape, no killing, nothing. We will do what we can to assist because we must assist you to get peace. So, if you want time to compose your delegation, we will still sit around but you can sit in a corner.

Joseph Kony: I have a question and a request. My question is, what are you going to do if you get a negative response from the Ugandan government?

Riek Machar: I will inform you.

Joseph Kony: Two, (Marchar interrupts).

Riek Machar: I will tell you frankly; the Ugandan government does not want to talk peace. As simple as that. Fight your war in northern Uganda; I will close borders- Sudan borders. I will close Sudan borders; fight your war there. But UPDF want to come to Sudan, they will not get the privilege to do it if they do not want to talk peace. I think Museveni will start his new five-year term to get peace not war.

Joseph Kony: My request, if you can let my people here to stay with us the whole night today, and leave your vehicles with some of your people here and take them back tomorrow.

Riek Machar: Tomorrow?

Joseph Kony: Yes, tomorrow.

Riek Marchar: Ok, ok. I want to solve problems (while checking in a black bag); besides the food I brought, my president asked me, (takes out two bundles of money from the bag and puts them in an envelope) to deliver this to you. It is also food. It is for you to buy food, no arms, and no ammunition.
No ammunition, no arms, he says I must deliver this to you (he gets up and walks to where Kony is seated), for you to buy food. $20,000. (Hands over the money to Kony and Kony hands it over to Otti who hands it over to another LRA commander).

Vincent Otti: What about the exchange of the other one? I think I talked about it the other time.

Riek Machar: The exchange? You want to exchange the dinnar (Sudan currency)? Give it to your people, they will go and exchange it. We will do that for them. It is your money but when they come, we will change it.

Riek Machar: Or when your delegation goes to Juba but anyway, we are responsible for your delegation. It is fine, you want to give it to us or you will send your person?

Vincent Otti: The other day I told you that when you are coming to us, bring it after you have exchanged.
Riek Machar: Ah, okay. When you go to Juba, you will exchange it. But when you come there do not kill our people.

Joseph Kony: No. Not me. I am not the one. (Video ends)